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What happens if no PCT?
Close menu Log in Register. Im starting to not believe in PCT. Im starting to not believe in PCT I have been reading alot lately on peoples opinions on post cycle therapy and alot are saying that when you come off you should allow your body to recover on its own By taking PCT drugs you are not allowing your body to work on its own and produce the natural levels it wants too So maybe taking nolvadex, clomid, HCG; is not really necessary.
I am getting my info from top national level competitors and there is also an article in this months Muscular Devolpment written by Lee Priest stating the same thing. What are everyone else's views on this subject? Last edited by supermannpc; at Well acording to the old school they knew nothing of pct. Arnold,steve reeves,big louie, and franco never used it and where f'in huge gods for there time. I am the irishman your mother warned you about I dont have a girlfreind but i know a girl who would get really mad at me if she heard me say that All my comments, questions and referrals are striclty for entertainment purposes only!
I also have read by the time you come off the gear that the anabolic levels are so low that your body just picks up where you left off. HCG also raises estrogen as well which will cause bitch tits. Originally Posted by nd. Regardless, I don't like HCG after a cycle. Thanks,MMX2 All information discussed on these forums is purely for entertainment purposes.
Wow this is an interesting topic. Assuming you come off once in awhile, what has your personal experience been with PCT thus far? How do we know if our test levels are back or if our estrigens is too high, how do we really know if everything is back to normal no i did not use PCT prior to my first deca cycle but now that i am a national level BB; i am using more and coming off less i also have always felt that if your just starting out or only take a mild dose of AS that PCT is definately not necessary.
Originally Posted by MMX2. I know over the years that I've read studies but I never saved any of them but through my own personal experience I know you can taper certain drugs without losing any of your gains. The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. The tragedy of life doesn't lie in not reaching your goals.
The tragedy lies in not having any goals to reach. I usually cycle 10 weeks on and then 10 weeks off IGF-1, creatine,clomid, and clen still lift heavy and keep eating heavy. Also, there is a sticky on the board and no offense to great guy who wrote it but I found it to be confusing and hard to follow ANyone know of any better ones? I add in the clen to keep the cortisol levels in check so that I don't get a huge spike at the end of the cycle-it also helps with the metabolic lag I doubt its just you.
I plan to use the stuff myslef when I complete the cycle I'm on. I have heard many people using this stuff inbetween cycles and for PCT. I just can't see not using any PCT for the same reasons you mentioned above.
I only lost water weight on my first cycle with no pct. Even with anti-estros, I have an issue with HCG use post cycle. I have used it during with ok results, but for most I think its not needed. I did a first cycle which consisted of only Sustanon mg.
What do you guys think I should do HCG maybe,if so how much and for how many days? As always, these posts are for entertainment purposes only. Not to be taken as medical advice, or even serious for that matter.
Ride or die you beezy! Originally Posted by Robbie. When you think of the old pros like Arnold, etc. They probably knew all about how to use lower dosages of dbol to gain more muscle. Also, the aromatase enzyme uses adipose tissue as a site for conversion to estrogen. If you keep pretty low bodyfat all the time, you aren't going to have a lot of conversion happening as long as you are only taking moderate doses.
Originally Posted by supermannpc. How do you guys feel about Proviron? I think it's a great add to any cycle for sex drive and anti-E properties. Proviron is great man. That's pretty much what I do, though it is partially medically dictated since I can't come off anyway.
Yeah, I'm interested to see if anyone has any more opinions on this. An IRA man shows up at the pearly gates and St. Peter comes out to greet him. Peter takes one look and says "I don't think you can get in here. The IRA man says"Who wants in? I just went off my cycle with no pct 5 months ago. I think for short cycles, no pct works great. I believe im one of these. I think my body is in continual shut down now.
PCT might help but its almost like a cycle in itself. Originally Posted by normalsucks. Last edited by krat; at I think some times it's luck of the draw. I've got a buddy that did 10 cc of cyp his only cycle dosing ,,,, old school bs for 6 weeks, had unreal gains.
Originally Posted by body2see. What I have found to be true after years of trial and error, is that HCG, though many don't believe in at all, and everyone has their own opinion on its use, is that it is important in bringing natural levels back to normal "quicker" I have come to this conclusion after monthly blood work, and visits to an endocronologist to be sure that everything was up to par For one, your testes being atrophied shrunken is the worse case scenario, since they cannot produce near as much in terms of hormones, besides just natural test.
What I found was that it would take nearly 6months naturally to return to normal. During this 6month period, my prolactin levels were so high that this was causing loss of libido, temporary impotence, depression, loss of muscle,etc, etc So anyways, long story short, with PCT, even just HCG and Nolva, my levels were able to get to normal for my age after only 2 months, and I strongly believe that the HCG is primarily responsible due to it's increase in testes size, thus allowing you to produce a higher level of naturally occuring testosterone.
Based on these experiences, it makes sense that when you use HCG it does spike your levels of testosterone that are naturally occuring. It also increases LH and several other key hormones, but what is important to note is that it increases YOUR natural levels, and these are not synthetic hormones. So it would seem that your body if it were making nanograms of test because you are running iu of HCG per week, would be easier to adjust itself to say the nanograms a 25 year old male might be making What this might mean is that if your testes are above your natural level, then it only need adjust downward, which is far easier than if your test levels post cycle reach say nanograms, which I have seen happen several times personally, and you have to work up to that same nano's to be maintaining your natural levels.
At this point you have to wait to build up, whereas on HCG PCT you are above your levels, and only have to adjust downwards. Now the Nolva has been shown to slightly increase natural test levels, though there is much argument about this in the BB community You would need the nolva to combat the side effects of either HCG or your bodies natural return to it's natural levels, since the spikes in testosterone certainly will cause spikes in estrogen. Think about how many people break out with acne, or make gains with PCT alone, this verifies this fact.
Also, again I recently had the experience of watching an individual who was taking a very high dosage of HCG for fertility reasons, gain 15 pounds now in a 2 month period. He has all the symptoms of increased testosterone, puffy face, puffy nipples, increase in strength, muscle, acne, etc, etc, and his levels for a 30 year old male were off the chart. His prolactin levels and Estrogen are through the roof as well. Then alot of users are using Aromasin to help with PCT nowadays as well.
Overall, I think personally I find that PCT cannot and does not on it's own bring your levels back to normal, but instead I think it is a jumpstart which dramatically helps maintain gains, and will allow the users body to naturally adjust to normal, if that persons body is still capable of normal levels of testosterone production post cycle.
I do feel certain compounds resist PCT more than others, and by far I would say Deca is one of these. Regardless of scientific data, I tend to recover at a very high rate this way in comparison, and even if it differs person to person, this might be something many users need to get their levels back to normal??? I have'nt used gear yet, but I have taken prohormones, not the same ,but my personal experience is pct really does'nt do much for me either, in fact I lose alot of size and strength when I'm off cycle and ponder the same question as spc, like a while back when I asked how much strength and size do you lose over time when in season and what not, anyway, I take pct and have the same strength and gains when I'm finished with the pct, so I don't really know if it works at all, other than that I think running clomid is a good solution to pct based on my research other than that, good luck.
Originally Posted by dorian Clomid and hcg both make me feel like crap. I have clo for this pct and some nolva as well but I don't have hcg yet. I still have 3 weeks and am probably going to get some but I still wonder if it is really necessary with doses like prop.
I have been on like 12 weeks and am not completely shut down. My nuts are just a little smaller. The good news is that I have blood work paper work so I can actually get my metabolics run after the pct and tell you guys what it looks like.
Is a fictitious character who talks about interesting topics just for fun. If your arms are 12 inches My views on PCT have changed a lot over the years. What is the point of having the body "go back to normal?
By trying to build the physiques we want we are fighting what the body wants.